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the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling, are they connected? >> the white house wants them to be connected. they actually think if neck get a deal decoupling the bush tax cuts, having entitlement reform in dealing with the debt ceiling that is getting a raise and not having to worry about it for another couple of years, that's what they want. house republicans have indicated that, look, they actually might want it to kick the can down the road, make a deal on taxes but kick it down the road where they have more leverage. president obama was asked about that earlier this week and said he doesn't want to play the debt ceiling game anymore. that's where republicans have more leverage than then do on other matters. >> all right. senior political editor mark murray, have a great weekend, sir. >> i want to bring in congressman peter welch from vermont. good to see you again. talked to you last weekend on msnbc. at that point you told me that you thought there was a 50/50 shot we'd go off the so-called fiscal cliff. today speaker boehner said talks we
the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling, are they connected? >> the white house wants them to be connected. they actually think if neck get a deal decoupling the bush tax cuts, having entitlement reform in dealing with the debt ceiling that is getting a raise and not having to worry about it for another couple of years, that's what they want. house republicans have indicated that, look, they actually might want it to kick the can down the road, make a deal on taxes but kick it down the road...
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>> let me add in here, judge, to your point that no congress has ever used the fiscal cliff. usual through debt ceiling as a bargaining point, which is what happened last year. this never dealt with. >> what would happen if the congress said no? the president would be forced to operate the federal government in money available to him. >> nobody said that to ronald reagan or the first george busher second george bush. >> democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling. >> but nobody has ever, ever stopped it and made it a point of then fiscal negotiation. only happened once. >> we have never been in treacherous, perilous fiscal circumstances as today. >> bret: top senate republican calling it quits was here on the set with us. the all-stars weigh in on that. surprising development next. initiated. neural speeds increasing to 4g lte. brain upgrading to a quad-core processor. predictive intelligence with google now complete. introducing droid dna by htc. it's not an upgrade to your phone. it's an upgrade to yourself. [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood coul
>> let me add in here, judge, to your point that no congress has ever used the fiscal cliff. usual through debt ceiling as a bargaining point, which is what happened last year. this never dealt with. >> what would happen if the congress said no? the president would be forced to operate the federal government in money available to him. >> nobody said that to ronald reagan or the first george busher second george bush. >> democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling....
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republicans will demand there whether it's part of the deal in the fiscal cliff or to raise the debt limit. >> i'm glad you brought that up. in terms of spending, which clearly has to be cut, the president from the reports this week wants to raise the debt ceiling without asking anybody. did they comment on that? >> what he's saying is give me the unilateral right to raise the debt ceiling, which congress had has had to approve, then congress can disapprove with a two-thirds vote. that would mean i could increase it when he wants. it's very unlikely that -- almost impossible, republicans in congress would go along seeding there kind of authority with the president. they might agree to increase the debt limit for enough money to take him through the end of the term. but they're not just going to give him or future presidents the authority to increase the debt limit. that's part of the power congress has. >> we hope to see them working hard at this, time getting close to the end of the year. >> 23 days and counting. >> keep the stopwatch going. happy sunday. >> you bet, thank you. >> d
republicans will demand there whether it's part of the deal in the fiscal cliff or to raise the debt limit. >> i'm glad you brought that up. in terms of spending, which clearly has to be cut, the president from the reports this week wants to raise the debt ceiling without asking anybody. did they comment on that? >> what he's saying is give me the unilateral right to raise the debt ceiling, which congress had has had to approve, then congress can disapprove with a two-thirds vote....
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as soon as we get passed the fiscal cliff, president obama will have to meet again with boehner to discuss the debt ceiling. >> thank you, ana, thank you, lz. >>> steven baldwin was arrested and when he was released he wanted to come on this show and explain himself. that's next. >>> stephen baldwin was arrested this week in new york. the district attorney says he owes more than $350,000 for not paying his state taxes for three years. he pleaded not guilty. baldwin said he paid $100,000 already to new york state. earlier he told me he knew all this was coming. >> i've been in a conversation about this very thing for several months now. and, again, i'm not trying to be funny when i say this. i'm grateful these guys are giving me a chance to work it out. it's a tough situation because it wasn't me specifically, as you know, don, you have people do your taxes for you, et cetera, et cetera. it wasn't handled appropriately. i am ultimately responsible but i am in a conversation and we are communicating with them and what i'm told is that we're going to be able to work it out. i'm hoping that's
as soon as we get passed the fiscal cliff, president obama will have to meet again with boehner to discuss the debt ceiling. >> thank you, ana, thank you, lz. >>> steven baldwin was arrested and when he was released he wanted to come on this show and explain himself. that's next. >>> stephen baldwin was arrested this week in new york. the district attorney says he owes more than $350,000 for not paying his state taxes for three years. he pleaded not guilty. baldwin said...
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this fiscal cliff and particularly raise the debt ceiling and avoid economic disaster. >> if that's the only particular issue to confront us next year if it is not wrapped up in this one negotiation as it should be. later in the show, we'll talk to chris van hollen, your colleague about a motion to dismiss possibility that would circumvent john boehner's extrasty to keep this bill off the floor. we will see about that. look, will rogers famously said i'm not a member of on organized party, i'm a democratic. you seem to tame the beat. under your leadership, the party has been unified. you had remarkable gains in the senate. how did you do it? >> this is a team effort. in fact, you took the words right out of my mouth from the d.n.c. meetings. i quoted will rogers in celebrating our victory because i think that will rogers would be surprised and proud that the party that he knew not to be organized was very well organized, had a ground game that was well coordinated that, you know, the tens of thousands of doors we knocked on, really hundreds of thousands of doors the phone calls the
this fiscal cliff and particularly raise the debt ceiling and avoid economic disaster. >> if that's the only particular issue to confront us next year if it is not wrapped up in this one negotiation as it should be. later in the show, we'll talk to chris van hollen, your colleague about a motion to dismiss possibility that would circumvent john boehner's extrasty to keep this bill off the floor. we will see about that. look, will rogers famously said i'm not a member of on organized...
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the real attention will be on this massive, $60.3 trillion debt, this fiscal cliff. but, most importantly, this debt crisis next year. i'm not talking about what's going to happen in february or january. what i want to talk about is how do we solve this problem? how do we get the speaker? and the president actually opened up that back door. they're sitting there making back room deals. open up and let the american people see what's going on. i want to see what's going on. they won't tell either side what the deal-making is going on. i don't think that's the way to make policy. >> now, as you said, you and i may not agree. we've debated on this show, though you've always come on. are you saying that you believe that speaker boehner has a score card and is punishing you and three others for standing up and voting for what you believe to be right? >> that is apparently the case. we wrote a letter to the speaker and i think if you read the language of the letter, you walk through all of the washington and you see oh, yes, there was a score card and we were graded a certa
the real attention will be on this massive, $60.3 trillion debt, this fiscal cliff. but, most importantly, this debt crisis next year. i'm not talking about what's going to happen in february or january. what i want to talk about is how do we solve this problem? how do we get the speaker? and the president actually opened up that back door. they're sitting there making back room deals. open up and let the american people see what's going on. i want to see what's going on. they won't tell either...
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cliff, the fiscal deficit and the debt of the country, which are three topics that can be addressed now on the comprehensive and efficient fashion. >> in the fiscal cliff negotiation. so what should this mean? because i think i could interpret any given number to say, oh, that means we shouldn't touch taxes for the upper brackets because the economy still needs as much money as it can have in it. or i could argue, oh, this means that we need more stimulus to keep the jobs going, or i could look at the debt and say, oh, this means we need to cut spending. so what does it mean? so what would you, and what globally, what would mean the most for the u.s. to do in terms of the global economy? >> you know, what you said, you would qualify as an economist. on the one hand, on the other hand. the truth of the matter is that the best way out of this would be a balanced solution because you will always fine a school of thoughts that will say it's much better to cut spending, and you will find another school of thought that says it's much better town crea increase the r and cut taxes and there
cliff, the fiscal deficit and the debt of the country, which are three topics that can be addressed now on the comprehensive and efficient fashion. >> in the fiscal cliff negotiation. so what should this mean? because i think i could interpret any given number to say, oh, that means we shouldn't touch taxes for the upper brackets because the economy still needs as much money as it can have in it. or i could argue, oh, this means that we need more stimulus to keep the jobs going, or i...
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they don't think the fiscal cliff is actually the marker of that. they think the debt ceiling is. that's made simply the ability to come to whatever deal they are going to eventually come to in the next couple of weeks as opposed to the next two or three months, a lot weaker. >> there are plenty of republicans concerned, particularly the economist side that these negotiations have huge ramifications for the american economy, as well, and global ramifications. the markets will respond badly if we go over the fiscal cliff. foreign investors will respond badly if america goes over the fiscal cliff at the end of this year. there's a sense, i'm hearing, increasing pessimism among republicans that say we can't afford to have these kinds of talks, even the stalling process doesn't look good for the country. >> there's other incentives that are bringing both republicans, especially the white house, to the table with respect to the fiscal cliff. we did reporting on this. >> your bosom buddy. >> yeah, but there's stimulus the white house wants as a result of the fiscal cliff deal. they don'
they don't think the fiscal cliff is actually the marker of that. they think the debt ceiling is. that's made simply the ability to come to whatever deal they are going to eventually come to in the next couple of weeks as opposed to the next two or three months, a lot weaker. >> there are plenty of republicans concerned, particularly the economist side that these negotiations have huge ramifications for the american economy, as well, and global ramifications. the markets will respond...
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this fiscal cliff is the direct result of the last fiscal cliff when we had the debt limit showdown. >>neil: both sides agreed. >>guest: i voted again i. why create the artificial crisis as a way to force action? it never works. >>neil: bethis. they did. >>guest: and now they are going to do it again. they are saying, now, hurt growth in america, cut a deal that hurts growth in america so in a year from now we will have a worst fiscal cliff and that is the real fiscal cliff $16 trillion debt which the tax you have 200,000 less jobsve next year and the people voting for that will be responsible and held accountable for the public policy. >>neil: you have been talking about freeing out to the middle-class. for and reason in the last election republicans lost the middle class. they seemed to get stereotypes as the party that appeals only to the well-to-do. what i am asking you, how do you change that? the perception sticks in the eyes of some. >>guest: first of all, we need to understand the middle class makes us different and exceptional. every didn't has rich people but what makes us
this fiscal cliff is the direct result of the last fiscal cliff when we had the debt limit showdown. >>neil: both sides agreed. >>guest: i voted again i. why create the artificial crisis as a way to force action? it never works. >>neil: bethis. they did. >>guest: and now they are going to do it again. they are saying, now, hurt growth in america, cut a deal that hurts growth in america so in a year from now we will have a worst fiscal cliff and that is the real fiscal...
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plus, we'll talk fiscal cliff and debt ceiling with him. plus, one hatch of simpson-bowles. the erskine bowles half. the less dancing of the duo. why former chief of staff is growing more optimistic we'll be able to get a deal before the cliff dive. by the way, will he take a job in president obama's cabinet? i'll have that answer straight ahead. first, a look ahead at the president's schedule today. you can see it's michigan with the lunch time remarks. back to the white house before 5:00. [ male announcer ] when ziggy the cat appeared at their door, he opened up jake's very private world. at first, jake's family thought they saved ziggy, but his connection with jake has been a lifesaver. for a love this strong, his family only feeds him iams. compared to other leading brands, it has 50% more animal protein... ...to help keep ziggy's body as strong as a love that reaches further than anyone's words. iams. keep love strong. ♪ don't know what i'd do ♪ i'd have nothing to prove ♪ i'd have nothing to lose [ male announcer ] zales is the diamond store. take up to an extra
plus, we'll talk fiscal cliff and debt ceiling with him. plus, one hatch of simpson-bowles. the erskine bowles half. the less dancing of the duo. why former chief of staff is growing more optimistic we'll be able to get a deal before the cliff dive. by the way, will he take a job in president obama's cabinet? i'll have that answer straight ahead. first, a look ahead at the president's schedule today. you can see it's michigan with the lunch time remarks. back to the white house before 5:00. [...
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now we're talking about using the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling as the ultimate weapon, trying to get something from the president now or give something to the president now with a threat that the debt ceiling will be used as the weapon in a few weeks or months. and quite frankly, that's no way to run a country. we need to move beyond this stalemate and this gridlock and both parties need to come together. i think the president's trying his best and, quite frankly, i would say that speaker boehner is really trying here. but these are difficult circumstances and i believe -- i return to what i said earlier. we had an election. the president won. when it comes to these tax matters, the people of this country are supportive of the president's approach. >> i'm curious, chip, and you were on this teleconference and obviously those are people very involved and very interested but there's an awful lot of fatigue, election fatigue in this country and, frankly, the holidays -- holiday season is upon us, people are busy, kids are back in school, so son and so forth. how much is public press
now we're talking about using the fiscal cliff or the debt ceiling as the ultimate weapon, trying to get something from the president now or give something to the president now with a threat that the debt ceiling will be used as the weapon in a few weeks or months. and quite frankly, that's no way to run a country. we need to move beyond this stalemate and this gridlock and both parties need to come together. i think the president's trying his best and, quite frankly, i would say that speaker...
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cliff, the fiscal deficit, and the debt of the country, three topics that can be addressed now on a comprehensive and efficient fashion. >> so what should this mean? i think i could interpret any given number, to think oh, that means we should not touch taxes for any bracts, because it's as much money as we could have in it, or this means that we need more stimulus to keep the jobs going, or i could look at the debt and say this means we need to cut spending, so what does it mean? what would you, and what globally, what would mean the most for the u.s. to do? >> you know what you said? you would qualify as an economist. on the one hand, on the other hand -- the truth of the matter is that the best way out of this would be a balanced solution. you will always find a school of thought that will say it'sment better to cut spendings. another that will say it's better to increase the revenue and raise taxes. and another group that says we have to cut deficits now and in the long run. we have seen studies of all sorts, and they will not demonstrate the absolute truth. my view, personally,
cliff, the fiscal deficit, and the debt of the country, three topics that can be addressed now on a comprehensive and efficient fashion. >> so what should this mean? i think i could interpret any given number, to think oh, that means we should not touch taxes for any bracts, because it's as much money as we could have in it, or this means that we need more stimulus to keep the jobs going, or i could look at the debt and say this means we need to cut spending, so what does it mean? what...
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they are looking for certainty on the fiscal cliff. certainty that debt reduction, there will be debt reduction, that entitlements will be brought under control. looking for certainty on taxe taxes. until this happens, there isn't going to be that certainly. i have to say that the republicans showed the political will. they stood up, to the conservative base. they put the re-knews on the table. what troubles me -- now that the ball is in the white house court, right? what troubles me is lack of political will on the white house, we haven't seen yet. particularly on spending and entitlement reform. voices in the deckic party saying that this was a mandate to walk away from debt reduction. that is troubling. >> charles lane do you see anything out there to give the business confidence to hire people again? >> well, there is just, i agree with nina. too many unknowns. we could add the situation the slow, steady, stagnation of europe to the mix. we could add uncertainty about where china is going to go. the troubling thing about the depart
they are looking for certainty on the fiscal cliff. certainty that debt reduction, there will be debt reduction, that entitlements will be brought under control. looking for certainty on taxe taxes. until this happens, there isn't going to be that certainly. i have to say that the republicans showed the political will. they stood up, to the conservative base. they put the re-knews on the table. what troubles me -- now that the ball is in the white house court, right? what troubles me is lack of...
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earnings will be very much held captive by the fact that the uncertainty not only about the fiscal cliff but debt ceiling. >> very quickly, john, we're lose altitude in this market rapidly. what do you make of this, and what are you expecting to close here? >> just shows you how fragile our markets r.one comment out of washington can take profits off the table intraday. we'll hold on to our gains here. >> thanks, everybody. we appreciate it. where exactly do we stand in these fiscal cliff negotiations in the latest now from our john harwood, on your stomping ground. good to see you both. what do you make of this comment from harry redd, john, saying it's unlikely we get a deal by christmas? are they posturing? they don't want to put their spending cuts on the table but want the republicans to. is this posturing? >> i think it's posturing. jay carney gave a white house briefing saying i'm not going to reveal anything about the status of the talks in negotiation beyond the fact that they took place. the support trying to hammer republicans publicly. he's got the high side public opinion on
earnings will be very much held captive by the fact that the uncertainty not only about the fiscal cliff but debt ceiling. >> very quickly, john, we're lose altitude in this market rapidly. what do you make of this, and what are you expecting to close here? >> just shows you how fragile our markets r.one comment out of washington can take profits off the table intraday. we'll hold on to our gains here. >> thanks, everybody. we appreciate it. where exactly do we stand in these...
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you may recall that in the summer of 2011, we nearly went over the fiscal cliff by not paying our debts. that caused our bonds to be downgraded because we had an element within the republican conference that was willing to take us to the cliff and hold us hostage. when you look back and see historically that the debt ceiling was raised 17 times, under ronald reagan and eight times under george h. w. bush canada seven times under bill clinton and six times under george w. bush, really it is honoring the full faith and credit of the u.s. government. , iaching that to a debt understand ideologically why people might want to do that, but why would you take the nation to this process? there was a passage of a special select committee. that select committee, if it did not respond with further cuts and tax increases, would seek a so-called sequestration comoe spending domestic and military spending. already in congress we obscene that while the cuts have been made on the military side, some would say there's more to come and on the domestic side and others would argue there's more to come ther
you may recall that in the summer of 2011, we nearly went over the fiscal cliff by not paying our debts. that caused our bonds to be downgraded because we had an element within the republican conference that was willing to take us to the cliff and hold us hostage. when you look back and see historically that the debt ceiling was raised 17 times, under ronald reagan and eight times under george h. w. bush canada seven times under bill clinton and six times under george w. bush, really it is...
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we've got the debate about the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling and we're talking in the trillions. before you can even get to the trillions, if you can't stop stuff like this, does the american public ever believe that washington is going to get its act together if you can't stop this 100,000 here, million there, all, of course, adds up to billions. if we can't stop the zombies, taxpayers paying for the zombies, how can we ever tackle medicare and social security? [laughter] megyn: that's the thing that makes people upset, julie. all right, if you're going to increase my taxes to help pay down the debt, help people in need, that's one thing, but if i'm going to be paying for zombies or for santa to ride the $250,000 sleigh, i object. >> i'm a little embarrassed. can you imagine being an employee and having to pretended to be a zombie? >> those were actors. >> i don't know about that. [laughter] i think they may have been dhs employees dressed up. charles is right, thanksgiving a little ri -- this is a little ridiculous. i understand what they're trying to do, they're trying to get
we've got the debate about the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling and we're talking in the trillions. before you can even get to the trillions, if you can't stop stuff like this, does the american public ever believe that washington is going to get its act together if you can't stop this 100,000 here, million there, all, of course, adds up to billions. if we can't stop the zombies, taxpayers paying for the zombies, how can we ever tackle medicare and social security? [laughter] megyn: that's the...
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>> because if you think the fiscal cliff is fun, you'll love the debt ceiling. the economic havoc that is wreaked by the fiscal cliff is a very gradual thing, as you and have i discussed. going over it is a mistake. we shouldn't do it. but at least initially, if we can reverse it, it won't be so bad. if you default on the nation's debt on our treasury bills, that's not a fiscal slope. that's a cataclysmic economic event. not only are you stiffing creditors who believe they have invested in the safest debt in the universe, you're actually threatening to have to raise our interest rates through the roof in order to service our debt, which means absolutely a long-term recession. it's really quite a fatal step. >> "the wall street journal's" reporting that the white house is willing to do corporate tax reform in their new proposal. what do you think than in what do you think that might mean? >> i think it's a neat idea. the white house is actually articulated a fairly detailed corporate tax idea in a white paper that didn't get enough attention a few years ago. and
>> because if you think the fiscal cliff is fun, you'll love the debt ceiling. the economic havoc that is wreaked by the fiscal cliff is a very gradual thing, as you and have i discussed. going over it is a mistake. we shouldn't do it. but at least initially, if we can reverse it, it won't be so bad. if you default on the nation's debt on our treasury bills, that's not a fiscal slope. that's a cataclysmic economic event. not only are you stiffing creditors who believe they have invested...
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the real concern is shifting or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package and if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the obama administration has been clear they will not sign anything. even to get past december 31st. so do you think they can hold firm on that if republicans offer them a package that doesn't include the debt ceiling? >> this is where i think the tension is now arising, which is even if you have some agreement over the tax rates which will jam the republicans a bit, can you jam them on the debt limit also, the concern will be an administration overstepping or overream reaching and trying to jam in the kinds being discussed now. i'm all in favor of getting rid of the debt limit. it makes no sense from a technical perspective. but it's probably a bridge too far to attempt that right now. the question really will become without any more significant entitlement reform a
the real concern is shifting or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package and if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the obama administration has been clear they will not sign anything. even to get past december 31st. so do you think they can hold firm on that if republicans offer them a package that...
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white house wants at the very least a long-term extension of the debt ceiling in any fiscal cliff deal. the republicans now see the debt ceiling as their own leverage. they're demanding a steep price to include it. who anyways if obama will ultimately go along with something like this. but it is a talk that there is still one crucial way he's at the mercy of republicans. it leaves him with a tough choice. to pay their price in entitlements or play debt ceiling chicken with them again. okay. does it for "the cycle" today.
white house wants at the very least a long-term extension of the debt ceiling in any fiscal cliff deal. the republicans now see the debt ceiling as their own leverage. they're demanding a steep price to include it. who anyways if obama will ultimately go along with something like this. but it is a talk that there is still one crucial way he's at the mercy of republicans. it leaves him with a tough choice. to pay their price in entitlements or play debt ceiling chicken with them again. okay....
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[inaudible] >> the short run problems of the fiscal cliff, but we're going to do with this debt and deficit issue and take time to summarize how we should look at these issues. i will start with david on the far side and move right across. >> thank you for coming. first, there are common denominators between the challenges at the federal, state, and local levels. some are inadequate but the controls, escalating health care costs, huge unfunded and off balance sheet obligations and outdated tax systems. other factors -- demographics, and infrastructure, state of the infrastructure, etc. with regard to the federal government, there is a lot of attention on the so-called fiscal cliff. i think here everyone knows what that relates to. that is really more the system. it is not the disease. but washington typically does, it focuses on some things rather than the disease. we need to avoid the fiscal cliff. we need to recognize reality. there is only so much that can be done the balance of this year. we need to do a credible down payment and build a bridge to a grand bargain which would involve mor
[inaudible] >> the short run problems of the fiscal cliff, but we're going to do with this debt and deficit issue and take time to summarize how we should look at these issues. i will start with david on the far side and move right across. >> thank you for coming. first, there are common denominators between the challenges at the federal, state, and local levels. some are inadequate but the controls, escalating health care costs, huge unfunded and off balance sheet obligations and...
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cliff and america's debt are pushing some seen here to renounce the pledge. i've been highlighting members of congress who have recently said they're getting over grover. one, tom cole, says he is not bound anymore. representative cole, you wrote allowing taxes to rise for the top bracket may seem acceptable by comparison, but this path would be enormously damaging for the economy. which meant you weren't going to do it. now, you've been urging your fellow congressmen to at least extend the bush era tax cuts to those making less than $250,000 and then do battle over tax cuts for the wealthy later. what has changed your mind? >> frankly, nothing, and you've mischaracterized my position. i'm not for raising tax rates on anybody. it's going to slow down, hurt rates. that's my position. not just because i signed a pledge, because that's what i believe. what i have said is we agree with the president that taxes on 98% of the american people shouldn't go up. that's his position. that's our position. why not just take that off the table right now? it's 80% of the bu
cliff and america's debt are pushing some seen here to renounce the pledge. i've been highlighting members of congress who have recently said they're getting over grover. one, tom cole, says he is not bound anymore. representative cole, you wrote allowing taxes to rise for the top bracket may seem acceptable by comparison, but this path would be enormously damaging for the economy. which meant you weren't going to do it. now, you've been urging your fellow congressmen to at least extend the...
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do you believe the analysis of the fiscal cliff impact was too rosy? >> projections are very difficult. it's very difficult to take into account the effect on confidence. as i said, consumers have been confident. they've maintained that confidence. but look at what happened during the debt limit debacle a year ago august. look at how the economy came to a grinding halt at that point. >> and that's your fear that the cliff could just freeze consume earp confidence and that's something you can't right now project as an economist? >> no one wants to go over the fiscal cliff. worse would be for the president to sign a bad bill. >> all right. alan krueger, chairman of the president's counscil on economi advisers. mr. krueger, nice to see you that month. i'll see you next month, i promise. >> thank you, chuck. >>> trivia time, jim demint's decision to step down 0 means south carolina will have two seats on the ballot in 2014. who was elected the last time both of south carolina's senate seats were on the ballot in the same election? strom thurmond, of course
do you believe the analysis of the fiscal cliff impact was too rosy? >> projections are very difficult. it's very difficult to take into account the effect on confidence. as i said, consumers have been confident. they've maintained that confidence. but look at what happened during the debt limit debacle a year ago august. look at how the economy came to a grinding halt at that point. >> and that's your fear that the cliff could just freeze consume earp confidence and that's...
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cliff discussions by folding the debt ceiling into fiscal cliff talks. take a listen. >> obama: congress, in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> jennifer: fortunately for us "newsweek" "daily beast" special correspondent michael tomasky is always up for playing political games himself. he's joining us from washington d.c. thanks for coming back inside "the war room." >> it is always my pleasure, governor. >> jennifer: always a pleasure to have you. so let me talk about this debt ceiling issue. because really, as we look at it really, the only leverage that republicans have on the fiscal cliff talks they proceed to be with the debt limit right? so today the treasury department ups the ante by endorsing republican senator mitch mcconnell's summer 2011 provision which, you know, he suggested and it effectively lets the president rai
cliff discussions by folding the debt ceiling into fiscal cliff talks. take a listen. >> obama: congress, in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> jennifer: fortunately for us "newsweek" "daily beast" special correspondent michael tomasky...
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lou: the fiscal cliff and now a new ultimatum on the national debt ceiling. you suppose this is the last condition? >> it's going to be a wild couple of months, maybe everybody thought with the election over, there was going to be peace and fure all of this out, bui think we're just at the beginning of a long protractive battle, lou. lou: more on the stalemate of the fiscal cliff, the impasse, and tell us what you think about the so-called negotiations. vote in tonight's online poll. do you agree president obama's ultimatum on higher taxes are actually the cause? make him responsible for driving us off the fiscal cliff? go to our to be page at facebook facebook.com/loudobbs. we'll have results at the end. chris and steven joining us here next to address th question and more. you know, from our 4,000 television commercials. yep, there i am with flo. hoo-hoo! watch it! [chuckles] anyhoo, 3 million people switched to me last year, saving an average of $475. yeah, i'm kind of a big deal. [sigh] it feels good to help people save... with great discounts like safe d
lou: the fiscal cliff and now a new ultimatum on the national debt ceiling. you suppose this is the last condition? >> it's going to be a wild couple of months, maybe everybody thought with the election over, there was going to be peace and fure all of this out, bui think we're just at the beginning of a long protractive battle, lou. lou: more on the stalemate of the fiscal cliff, the impasse, and tell us what you think about the so-called negotiations. vote in tonight's online poll. do...
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one is that fiscal cliff, to is the debt ceiling. three is the so-called big deal that has to be done on our debt and deficit. unfortunately those issues, convoluted, especially in this town. they are distinct. the impact each other but they are distinct. this fiscal cliff is an artificial state. congress came in, said this law expires on this date. they extended it wants. they put in the sequestration. it is a date. all they have to do is extend the date and allow themselves time to discuss the issues. instead they are putting it all into a lame duck session. that is a problem. sometimes it leads to bad policy. the fiscal cliff can have real consequences. cbo has said that it would cause a recession if we were to go off the fiscal cliff. i do not dispute that i do point out that in 1993 when these taxes were first put in, many said they will cause a recession. they did not. the economy is improving on its own right now. and getting some much stronger. the impact of the fiscal cliff, while not something to be encouraged, may not be a
one is that fiscal cliff, to is the debt ceiling. three is the so-called big deal that has to be done on our debt and deficit. unfortunately those issues, convoluted, especially in this town. they are distinct. the impact each other but they are distinct. this fiscal cliff is an artificial state. congress came in, said this law expires on this date. they extended it wants. they put in the sequestration. it is a date. all they have to do is extend the date and allow themselves time to discuss...
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i mean, if we go over the fiscal cliff and don't have a debt deal by year end, what you will to cut jobs? what's the impact on dupont if we don't get a resolution in time in. >> it's hard to predict because it's hard to know. i do think if there's an issue and we don't avert a cliff i think we as a country will react quickly. i criit will have an impact. i along with many of my peers have been advocating very strongly to rise above the issues and take a balanced aprove. we understand that spending has to be kur mild and the issue is the debt in this country, an issue we have to handle. >> handling that debt includes spending cuts as well as changes in the tax code. what would you like to sigh? what would make the most sense as a corporate executive running one of the most important companies in the world, what would make sense on the tax structure changes that you're debating right now on your standpoint? >> we have a very complex tax code in this country for corporations as well as individuals, and for corporations we need taxes in this country to be more on a coordinated basis with our
i mean, if we go over the fiscal cliff and don't have a debt deal by year end, what you will to cut jobs? what's the impact on dupont if we don't get a resolution in time in. >> it's hard to predict because it's hard to know. i do think if there's an issue and we don't avert a cliff i think we as a country will react quickly. i criit will have an impact. i along with many of my peers have been advocating very strongly to rise above the issues and take a balanced aprove. we understand that...
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right now, you don't owe taxes on the forgiven debt, on the other side of the fiscal cliff, you do. it expires on december 31st, unless congress acts. >> the average amount that homeowners are short in a short sale is $95,000. and if this tax break goes away, as part of the so-called fiscal cliff, those homeowners could be taxed on that $95,000 as additional income starting in 2013. >> how much homeowners will owe in taxes on that amount depends on the tax bracket they're in, but on average, it would be about 20 to $25,000. the banks have an extra incentive to sell short and absorb the loss. the nation's biggest lenders get a credit for short sales as a form of foreclosure relief. foreclosures also sell on average for $30,000 less than homes sold via short sale. so as we near the fiscal cliff, you can expect short sales even more as homeowners get hit with bank taxes and banks get stuck with foreclosed properties. if we go over the cliff, the taxpayer's base with a short sale may be steep enough to walk away instead. and that would push the fiscal cliff higher for 2013. i'm christin
right now, you don't owe taxes on the forgiven debt, on the other side of the fiscal cliff, you do. it expires on december 31st, unless congress acts. >> the average amount that homeowners are short in a short sale is $95,000. and if this tax break goes away, as part of the so-called fiscal cliff, those homeowners could be taxed on that $95,000 as additional income starting in 2013. >> how much homeowners will owe in taxes on that amount depends on the tax bracket they're in, but on...
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. >> an added wrinkle to the fiscal cliff talks is the debt ceiling, with the government on pace to reach its borrowing limit early next year. the white house stated its position on the 14th amendment, which some theory rise is a way for the president to raise the debt limit independently, should republicans attempt to use it as a negotiating tool. >> i can say that this administration does not believe that the 14th amendment gives the president the power to ignore the debt ceiling, period. >> the fiscal cliff talks reached a new low yesterday when, somehow, the new york jets got dragged into it on the senate floor. >> it's not one of my favorite teams, but it's really, really fun to watch, and that's the new york jets. coach ryan, he's got a problem. he has three quarterbacks, sanchez, he's got tim tebow, he's got another guy. he can't decide who their quarterback is going to be. that's the same problem republicans are having. romney's gone, but he's still in the background. we have mcconnell and we have boehner. who is the quarterback, mr. president? who is the quarterback? >> there's s
. >> an added wrinkle to the fiscal cliff talks is the debt ceiling, with the government on pace to reach its borrowing limit early next year. the white house stated its position on the 14th amendment, which some theory rise is a way for the president to raise the debt limit independently, should republicans attempt to use it as a negotiating tool. >> i can say that this administration does not believe that the 14th amendment gives the president the power to ignore the debt ceiling,...
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he said he would rather go over the fiscal cliff than not to raise tax rates. so obama pushing higher taxes on the top 2%, not for economic reasons but for i'd logical reasons but there is also this obvious fact. obama wants to raise the top rates for political reasons. now that is he wants to force republicans to raise tacks in order to trigger a civil war within the gop and the conservative movement, and in that respect sadly obama is having some success. now so long as this debate is focused not on cutting spending but on raising daxs and revenues with the only question being which taxes, how much revenue, then obama wins. now if obama succeeds in making the argument not about his spending, but about grover norquist, he wins there, too. for republicans, on the other hand, if they can figure out a way to refocus the debate on spending, they win and the country wins. we can't kid ourselves that's correct is not easy to do. obama has the biggest microphone in the land and he also has the media in his hip pocket. all the gop has is control of the house. now it's
he said he would rather go over the fiscal cliff than not to raise tax rates. so obama pushing higher taxes on the top 2%, not for economic reasons but for i'd logical reasons but there is also this obvious fact. obama wants to raise the top rates for political reasons. now that is he wants to force republicans to raise tacks in order to trigger a civil war within the gop and the conservative movement, and in that respect sadly obama is having some success. now so long as this debate is focused...
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even as we are wrestling with trying to debt a handle on the fiscal cliff, we cannot lose sight of their urgent priority of making sure we have job growth -- job creation, to say the least. many of the components you have outlined -- that both of you have -- it comprised of the broad description of the fiscal cliff whether it is the expiring tax cut provisions, the expiring tax cut extensions, and spending cuts as well. if you consider more, which of those would you consider having the biggest bang for the buck in terms of economic impact of those that we are discussing here today? >> it is a given that we will extend the current tax rates for taxpayers that make less than $250,000 on an annual basis. that is absolutely necessary. when you consider the other things that are happening -- in terms of the bang for the buck, the emergency unemployment insurance program is very effective. it is small in the grand scheme of things. cbo is estimating it would costs per calendar year about $33 million. but the economic to bitty for job growth compared to the unemployment rate would be measurably
even as we are wrestling with trying to debt a handle on the fiscal cliff, we cannot lose sight of their urgent priority of making sure we have job growth -- job creation, to say the least. many of the components you have outlined -- that both of you have -- it comprised of the broad description of the fiscal cliff whether it is the expiring tax cut provisions, the expiring tax cut extensions, and spending cuts as well. if you consider more, which of those would you consider having the biggest...
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charles: on that note, we are talking about the fiscal cliff. earlier today, president obama brought the debt ceiling debate, or would be debate into the picture. it feels like a lot of the work that you do -- people say okay, we spent 100 grand on this or maybe watching the shrimp on a treadmill. it's not a big deal. >> is a big deal because the way you eliminate a trillion dollar deficit is a billion dollars at a time. the wavy you get a billion dollars is 100 million or $10 million at a time. so what is our excuse? can we say that it is okay to waste money and hundreds of thousands of small areas that add up to trillions of dollars? or do we have to look at big areas? what i would put forward is congress isn't doing their job and how they write it and oversight it. i still pick up any of my feet on the ground because the penny is were 3.5 cents. anyone in america who is struggling today, we don't have the luxury of ignoring stupidity and waste anymore. charles: i have less than a minute. i have to squeeze this in here. you think we could be a
charles: on that note, we are talking about the fiscal cliff. earlier today, president obama brought the debt ceiling debate, or would be debate into the picture. it feels like a lot of the work that you do -- people say okay, we spent 100 grand on this or maybe watching the shrimp on a treadmill. it's not a big deal. >> is a big deal because the way you eliminate a trillion dollar deficit is a billion dollars at a time. the wavy you get a billion dollars is 100 million or $10 million at...
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fiscal cliff plan and the debt ceiling plan. what was he trying to do? >> guest: he was trying to embarrass the democrats. for instance, the president's plan on the debt ceiling was basically allowing the president to request whatever increases without the approval of congress and he thought that would embarrass democrats if they had to vote for it particularly endangered ones. >> sounded like leader reid took the bait. how the democrats respond? >> guest: there are a lot in politics going on here. we just talked about politics from mcconnell's side. democrats are aware that even if they allow -- even if they get the republicans to crumble on raising tax rates for upper bracket people there is still going to be a need next year, say march, to increase the debt limit and that was what john boehner used as is leverage a year-and-a-half ago in his talks with president obama so there's a belief on the part of democrats that they would like to get this idea in common circulation and also trying to manufacture some dialogue, the debt
fiscal cliff plan and the debt ceiling plan. what was he trying to do? >> guest: he was trying to embarrass the democrats. for instance, the president's plan on the debt ceiling was basically allowing the president to request whatever increases without the approval of congress and he thought that would embarrass democrats if they had to vote for it particularly endangered ones. >> sounded like leader reid took the bait. how the democrats respond? >> guest: there are a lot in...